Real Talk | The Real Estate Podcast
Real Talk | The Real Estate Podcast
Pamela Simons' Path to Paradise: Investing in Dominican Real Estate
Diana Victoria Quinn & Nicole Lombardi host a conversation with Pamela Simons about the exciting real estate opportunities in the Dominican Republic. With affordable properties and attractive investment returns, the episode encourages listeners to explore international real estate as a viable option.
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Hey everybody, this is Diana Victoria Quinn from TFN Realty and you're listening to the Real Talk Real Estate Podcast, the uncensored show that keeps it real for people who love real estate. We'll have some of the best interviews with some of our industry's most exciting people right now on a variety of different topics. We promise not to bore you.
Speaker 2:Pamela is leading TFN International, our newest division, and she's here to talk a little bit about the projects. But before we get into that, Pamela, can you share a little bit about your journey?
Speaker 3:Absolutely so. I've been in real estate since 2013 and started working predominantly in the condo market downtown Toronto a lot and transitioned over to become a broker manager and then realized I was at a change in my life where I could relate to a different client audience. So, thinking about myself and the transition, there's a lot of people like me who are looking for a different way of life, a wellness journey that may include their homes or investment properties, and so that kind of got me looking and thinking about, you know, what's available in Toronto as investment properties go versus other places and, as I noticed over the last few years. You know, covid had a major change on people's attitudes towards real estate, and I started looking as well and realizing that there's a real market for people to explore opportunities outside the boundaries of Toronto, outside the GTHA, outside of Canada, and to get to a point where some of those properties are not only affordable but also bring a return on investment. That is just not an option. You know much with the investor properties that are available in Toronto.
Speaker 3:Many people who are buying today, as we know from doing pre-construction work, you know the price per square foot is very high, and so for people to obtain a really positive net return, they either have to put a very large down payment, which makes it possible, or maybe it's a home that they're buying and home ownership is fabulous. Toronto doesn't make it overly friendly for us as investors. I started my portfolio over 10 years ago, so I was fortunate I got in early, which is always the recommendation for any realtor that is working with clients that want to be investors is get in today, because in five years you're going to regret that you didn't get in today. So, that being said, looking at international properties, I came across some wonderful colleagues in the Dominican Republic, across some wonderful colleagues in the Dominican Republic, and that is where I am right now in terms of introducing this opportunity to our audience here in Toronto and in Canada. So there's some fabulous property opportunities down there. Airbnb friendly snowboard lifestyle, airbnb friendly snowboard lifestyle that whole wellness opportunity it is there.
Speaker 2:Amazing and whereabouts in the Dominican Republic.
Speaker 3:That's a really good question because it's big. It's like somebody says I'm going to buy in Canada. Do you mean Toronto? Do you mean Vancouver? Do you mean Calgary? Do you mean Nova Scotia? Where do you mean? So that's a really good question.
Speaker 3:So I predominantly focus on the Punta Cana area, which includes Bavaro, punta Cana, cap Cana and then, going a little bit closer to the government in the Dominican Republic, really do want the investor dollars there, so they've got some really great programs, some tax incentives. That's exactly the opposite of what Toronto is doing to us. So, for example, when you purchase, there is no land transfer tax. Excellent, how much is land transfer tax in Toronto? It's twice as much as anywhere else. So that's one benefit. There's also no property taxes for 15 years on a pre-construction purchase. So again, that makes it that they're very investor friendly and easy for somebody to get involved in buying one.
Speaker 3:I think it might be a little scary because even when I bought in Calgary I was thinking, well, that's really far away. Now I'm a bit of a maverick and so that didn't scare me very much because it's still Canada. But when people are buying internationally, they want to know that they have a strong support network to make sure that their purchase is safe, secure and that they're achieving the results that they want. So we have a great package of other professionals that assist. So there's property management companies, lawyers. Lawyers typically charge a percentage of the sale price to close the deal, so they pay a strong role in the purchase process. But property management whether it's a long-term investor, long-term regular type of tenants or the Airbnb style investment, they're available there, which is nice.
Speaker 4:Wow, it's interesting to think about because typically when you think of you know areas like Punta Cana, you think resort style right. And it's diversifying that definition of really enjoying that wellness piece right, that work-life balance and that opportunity to just pause and be one with sort of these places that offer vitamin D and sun and sand and water and all of the senses.
Speaker 3:Well, and often you'll find too that people may want to have a really great home in the GTHA area, something that is comfortable and will contribute to that lifestyle. But they may also be at the point in their lives where they're looking for that. You know that zoomer lifestyle or the snowbird lifestyle, where they're going to be a way to avoid that snow, winter avoidance, so they might be away from their properties here in the area for a couple of months, a few weeks, whatever it might be. So it's kind of nice that you know this is a simple flight. There's direct flights every single day. You can go with Air Canada I hope we get brownie points for that Air Canada and WestJet, and there's a brand new flight company called Aerojet and they're competing in the low cost option so you can fly for less than $400 return Canadian.
Speaker 2:And it's a quick flight just over four hours.
Speaker 3:Yep, just a little bit further than Florida. So when you think about people who are enjoying that snowbird lifestyle, florida used to be the darling. But I think people are saying Florida has a little bit of seasonal change. Dominican Republic is fairly constant all year round, which is nice. It also luckily, knock on wood, it has not been hit by a major hurricane, and we know this past season that Florida has had some major problems with some of those storms. So that is something to note. I don't know. They say they're blessed down there, which is kind to note. I don't know they just they say they're blessed down there, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 2:And what product types are we speaking about?
Speaker 3:So predominantly condos and condos. Again, comparing the condos to Toronto condos, which is my most familiar product, the one bedroom condos down there are about 700 square feet plus or minus and they start at $159,000 US. Even with our Canadian dollar not being great today, that still is about 200,000 Canadian and that's about a 700 square foot property. When I did some of the investor calculations which I've got, those drafted for people happy to review that with people the number crunching element. But even when I did some number calculations, if you're doing an Airbnb style rental, 60% occupancy, you could still be making close to $1,000 US a month on that. I don't think we achieve that in Toronto if you're purchasing today as an investor. So it makes it tough and it's just nice that we've diversified our product offering to be able to recognize that there are investors who need a place to invest some money and are looking for, you know, profit and profitability. And whether there are going to be more hands off, that's fine. Whether they're going to be more hands on, whether they're planning to use it for a bit of the time, all of those options are available.
Speaker 3:So predominantly condos. That was a one bedroom. We have two bedrooms, three bedrooms and in neighborhoods, too, that are very safe, like gated communities like Cocotel. Cocotel is right beside the Malia Resort and uses the Malia Resort amenities, but it's gated, so there's only two entrances in and we have two projects that we're currently marketing in the Cocotel area and it has a golf course if you love golfing beautiful golf courses Also. You know the clubhouse with the pool. Many of the condo buildings also have pools as part of them. That's sort of a fairly common feature is that they do have that. So even if we wanted to go down there ladies, we could go down there, work and take our computers right by the pool and in between have a little quick dip, and it's perfect for that. If you're a digital nomad, perfect for that. They've got all the infrastructure to allow that to be possible.
Speaker 4:I sense a TFN trip coming up. I think we need one. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Air Canada needs to send us a coupon code and we'll blog the whole trip. There you go.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely yes, I think so.
Speaker 2:And what about the buying process? What are the steps involved?
Speaker 3:deposits- Well, it's a fairly standard process. So most of the projects require you, at the time you select your unit, to pay a 30003,000 or $5,000 initial deposit. Then the paperwork gets developed and you sign a contract that secures your unit. So the first one is sort of a reservation amount. It may be refundable depending on the builder, and otherwise it's just part of the initial deposit. Then the buyer would pay 20% down within the first 30 days. Then there's a schedule over construction. Now the other thing is the style of building and relating to downtown Toronto where we've got mega high rises. The style of project here is low rises, so they're three, maybe five stories max. So the building timeframe is fairly accurate. So if they say, if you buy today and the project supposed to be done by 2026, it will be done by that time, because they don't have to worry about all of the extra potential problems from building a mega high rise, which is good.
Speaker 4:And they're not building in winter.
Speaker 3:They're not building in winter.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, they also the builders take pride in when they develop a marketing brochure that shows you the images of what the finished product will look like.
Speaker 3:They take pride in making sure that it looks like that, so the buyers don't get any surprises. Making sure that it looks like that, so the buyers don't get any surprises. So it's the initial deposit, the 20% in 30 days. There's a construction schedule for payment of, you know, 40, 60%, and then the balance is when the product is actually delivered to the buyer and then at that point in time they can decide if they're planning on leveraging it and moving in and living in it residency is possible, or if they're planning on using it as moving in and living in it residency is possible, or if they're planning on using it as an investment property. And you know, then it would go. They would probably hire a property management company, of which our team down there has access to some great property management companies that will take care of everything for them. The nice thing too is some of the projects come fully furnished, so they're literally turnkey.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so again a buyer doesn't have to go down and worry do I have to go to the furniture shop?
Speaker 2:and pick this, and pick that, and it's done for them, which is amazing.
Speaker 3:Wow, you guys are now ready to buy, right I?
Speaker 4:am. I'm dreaming. I can see this is going to be our dinner conversation.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, it's, lovely.
Speaker 3:But, it's affordable. It's affordable, yes, one bedroom's at $150, two bedrooms starting at around $200, villas $400. Now, these are all US dollars, but it doesn't take much to convert them. And you think that if a villa at 400 US is about 600 Canadian? That's a one bedroom, a small one bedroom in downtown Toronto With no parking. With no parking, yes, and down there you're going to get a villa. You're going to get a private pool in a villa. If it's a condo, you're going to get. You know, two bedrooms are 1200 square feet with terraces.
Speaker 4:And that's the thing I think as a, you know, a general population. We're thinking outside of the Canadian box per se and understanding. You know that you said, and it keeps resonating with me, that wellness component, yes, of if I'm going to invest in secondary third properties whatever and have them generate some income for me, it's something that I could potentially use, yes, and sort of have best of both worlds right, yes, and a little bit of extra vitamin D.
Speaker 3:As we are looking outside today and it's cloudy and you think we're heading into the winter season, the snowbirds are going to be starting to pack up and head away, and you know Dominican Republic is an alternative to say Mexico, or you know there's a lot of other emerging markets in the sunshine areas, so it's one of those. I find that people say, well, I love Mexico or I'm love Dominican Republic. I think if you're in Toronto, it's an easy flight to go down, whereas maybe if you're in the West, maybe Mexico is easy, an easy flight to go down. So you know we may find that both types of properties are perfect for that particular buyer.
Speaker 3:I think Dominican Republic is still younger than Mexico, so I think their prices are still good. But again, remember Toronto 10 years ago, 15 years ago. If you bought then, you're fine today with your investment properties. So I feel the same thing is happening with the Dominican Republic. If you buy today, I think you have the growth potential that you're going to not only earn positive cash flow, but you will also hit those equity growth elements that you know are more difficult to find if you're buying today in Toronto.
Speaker 4:Right, it's this niche time right now. Right, it's a little bit of the unknown and it's new. So where there's new there's, you know, a little bit of pause, but it's great to understand that there's professionals that are, you know, alongside you during that full purchase and you have progress payments so you can get comfortable with getting there, and I'm sure there's multiple visits that happen during those progress milestones. Yeah, it's really just pivoting sort of what investment looks like and diversifying the understanding of that too.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely. I think that a lot of people, if they're planning a holiday and are planning to go to the Punta Cana area, I can coordinate a site visit so that they could learn a little bit more about what the product is. We're planning on hosting an event here early in the new year, in 2025. We're planning on hosting an event here early in the new year in 2025. So that'll be nice to be able to have our partners come up and have people ask the questions. So we certainly want to make sure that people are aware of the fact that there's opportunities for them to learn and become comfortable. But I also don't think they want to sit on this very long because you know, just as it changed in Toronto, it will change there as well. And to you know, garner those benefits, that potential cash flow, like I just think that would be fabulous.
Speaker 3:Like a person in their 40s, 50s, 60s, you know, adding that to your CPP or your OAS as an investment strategy Perfect. And you know you purchase a small one when you're not using it. You're making that extra income absolutely perfect, and for a small amount. Like many people, if they've got a home in Toronto, they probably have quite a bit of equity. So I mean even saying I'm going to use the equity in my Toronto home to purchase an investment home, but I want that investment to pay dividends. This will do it for you.
Speaker 4:That's exactly where I was going with it. My wheels have been turning because, exactly to your point, if there's someone who has, you know, has achieved homeownership in the last 10 years, they definitely have that equity that's sitting there, and if they're able, why not have it work for you, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and we're in a perfect time. We're post-COVID, we understand the importance of balance and enjoying our life and spending time with our family, and we all have a little bit more flexibility in our careers and our work, that we can work a little bit remotely, so it's the perfect time to start exploring all of it. It's not just an investment, it's not just for lifestyle, it sort of catches all elements.
Speaker 4:It's almost double duty, right. It's something that you know. If we look at sort of just even my age demographic, you're generally going to be going on a vacation once a year, hopefully, so why not have that be your residence, where it's a home away from home, while it's putting money in your in your pocket?
Speaker 3:Yes, and a lot of people who are doing the Airbnb style. You know, when you're not using it, you know you may have a place where you're locking up some of the stuff that you want to keep and have access to my. You know, I worked with a gentleman who had a place in Florida and you and he would just go with his laptop bag because all his clothes were down there, all of his warm weather clothes were down there, and his wife used to get kind of mad at him, like, is that all you're bringing? It's like, yeah, I don't need anything else, everything else is down there my hairbrush, my toothbrush, my clothes, my shoes, everything's down there. So you could certainly say, you know it's affordable enough that I could keep it just for me. Or, you know, lease it out to family and friends if that's what you wanted. Or you could put it out on the Airbnb market or something similar, because there's similar it's not the only one, so there's other types of short term rental property management companies down there.
Speaker 4:We have my attention. My wheels are absolutely.
Speaker 3:Well, the other thing too is when we work with builders. We work with a number of different builders In Dominican Republic. They typically work with like what's called a master broker program, and so our master broker in the Dominican Republic works with some builders builders and he won't take a builder unless he's done a lot of due diligence on them. So he has to make sure that that builder has the money to start and basically almost finish, so they've got their own investors. So the money to build is not coming from the buyers, yes, it's coming from their investment group, and then they get reimbursed once the project is completed. That is not always the case.
Speaker 4:That's a really important point, because I think that's where a lot of people are gun shy at times, because when you're entering these markets that are not quite developed, yes, it's like, okay, how secure is my investment? How secure is this? Two, three $400,000 I'm going to invest in before I get a key. How secure is that? So it's a really great point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I like that and that was one of the reasons why I decided to partner with the group that I've partnered with in the Dominican Republic was, again, these are things that appeal to me and are important to me, so I'm sure they're going to be important to my target audience, who is basically like me. We're kind of the same in that sense that you know we're looking for the opportunity to grow our money and you know this just provides that opportunity to do that.
Speaker 2:All right, when are we leaving? When are we?
Speaker 4:leaving. Yeah, I'm good, I'm doing my schedule.
Speaker 3:I think AirJet has a flight tonight. It's leaving about 8 and gets in about midnight. Done, done.
Speaker 2:AirJet coupon code. Info at tfadrealtycom.
Speaker 3:We'd love to partner up with them and have people come down and have us come down and have another close look at what's going on down there.
Speaker 4:It's the right time. It's the right time to have these conversations and offer this type of portfolio Because, to your point, buying property, buying real estate in the GTA or in sort of outskirts of it, it's a big commitment and the price tags are not, you know, quite there. So if you're getting into the investment game and you're looking to just start right and start stacking, this sounds like the perfect opportunity that can blend with your living.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's affordable.
Speaker 2:And I'm also thinking it's not something that you have to do alone.
Speaker 4:No, you and I could go in on it together. I mean do it, yeah, just us.
Speaker 3:Well, you certainly could, I mean there are some groups that are kind of forming and perhaps saying well, I'm going to buy a villa, and so they've got a syndicated group together that are doing that, like myself, my brother, my mother, we, can all share something like this yes, absolutely. I think it's perfect for that. Having a family, it's like a cottage, right, it's similar to a cottage. However, you've got the sand and the salt water. You're really good, pamela, all those things that make you feel good Mojito.
Speaker 3:Yes, a nice mojito they have excellent rum down there and coffee, yes, those are a couple of strong features that I like when I visit. The food is excellent and really you have a choice. So there's beach villages which are not beachfront. There are some beachfront, but it's more difficult to find today. But there's beach villages which are a short walk, maybe 10 minute walk, to the beach and I think as a Canadian, I don't know if I want to be at the beach every single day.
Speaker 3:I mean you think, oh, I'd love to have a beachfront place, but maybe you don't necessarily like, you probably wouldn't enjoy that benefit as much as you think you would. A beach village or a gulf area, those are again, would be a different style of lifestyle, but there's lots of Canadians down there that are enjoying this type of lifestyle. So you would get involved with the community, access some of the community events. There's some fabulous Facebook groups for Canadians living in the Dominican Republic and you know they're sharing. You know, can you cat sit for me? You know, whatever it might be, there's lots of opportunity for us to you know, as Canadians, you know we're the friendliest people in the world for us to you know, partner and work with other people to, you know, make that community even better. So if people are worried about, oh, I'm going to miss my friends if I'm down there, no, you will make new friends and you will make lovely people that live in the Dominican Republic friends and I don't think you'd have a problem.
Speaker 2:Amazing. And if our listeners want to get a hold of you, how can they do that?
Speaker 3:They can call me here at TFN. I also have a lot of videos that focus in and kind of showcase some of the projects that are on there, and so they can go to PamelaSimonsca and that will take them in so that they could have a look at some of the wonderful videos. If you're looking for the number crunching videos, I've got those there. I'm constantly doing new videos to highlight and feature new projects. I think currently I have about eight projects that I'm working on and you know there's always more coming.
Speaker 3:We are kind of gearing down for the holiday season but again, it's a good time for people to have those conversations with me so that they're getting ready for 2025, because you know, we launched a couple in the fall. There's still inventory for some of those projects, but there will be new projects coming next year as well, and every one of those projects is about two years in construction timeframe. So if they were buying in 2025, they would get their keys in 2027. If the project launched in 2024, they would get the keys in 2026. So there's still some opportunity to buy the current inventory and get the keys and start earning that profit, you know, within two years, and I think that's quite a bit different than what we're doing with pre-construction here in the Toronto area.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we're heading into perfect timing. I know myself a lot of Canadians. We have trips planned down south, so if anyone has a trip planned to Dominican Republic, even an all-inclusive, they should get in touch with you.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, absolutely, because we can tour them around. It's, you know, no trouble at all to have them tour around. They love to do orientations, and whether you're speaking in English, spanish, italian, I don't know if we have a French speaking person, but we certainly have lots of different languages that we can host people in a language that's comfortable for them, which is great. So you don't have to worry that you know what if I don't understand it? The contracts are in Spanish, but we can have them translated in English as well, which makes them easy for somebody to understand. But we've got it all. I mean it really. I'm a one-stop shop for people who are looking for this opportunity, and it's just a matter of you know when. When do you want to start? Is it now? Is it in six months? When do you want to start? I can help you Great.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you, pamela for spending time with us today. We look forward to connecting again in the new year. We can maybe dig a little deeper into some of the plans, but this was great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, excellent. Well, thank you so much for hosting me. Let's start now.
Speaker 2:Yes.